Concerns About Holy Priests?

There is a nice discussion thread on the beta forums about holy priest talent issues and suggestions about what can be done to fix them.

The concerns are:

Holy Concentration and Improved Holy Concentration

The proc chance it too low!  There is a total proc chance of 45% after a crit.  At 22.2% crit (possible in a raid), we would see a proc every 1 in 10 spells. That is a lot worse than it was before.  We were seeing it about 1 every in 6 spells regardless of whether we were in a raid or not.

It procs at the wrong time.  By linking HC/IHC to crit, we see it happening after we land a large heal and have Inspiration on the target.  The mana-cost reduction is nice for cheating the FSR, but the haste effect becomes somewhat trivial.

Divine Providence

This is our 45-point talent.  It increases the healing done on AoE healing spells by 10% (at max rank).  Besides the fact that it is boring as far as new talents go, it really isn’t that much better than Spirtual Healing.  5% on all spells vs. 10% on multi-target heals.

When speccing holy, you will get to the eventual point where you have to make a decision between Mental Agility and Divine Providence.  Most priests going that deep and looking at those two talents are thinking about them with one particular spell in mind: Circle of Healing.

Mental Agility increases the healing per mana of Circle of Healing more than Divine Providence does (it’s a 1.11111… multiplier for Mental Agility vs. just a 1.1 multiplier for Divine Providence).

Desperate Prayer

The mana cost is too high.  People liked it as a mana-free heal.

Hymn of Hope

You have to stop casting for 8 seconds to channel a spell that gives back less total mana that its previous incarnation (about 1k at level 80). No one is going to use this (except when soloing as it is cheaper than drinking).

Test of Faith

It increases your healing and crit chance on targets under 50% health.  The complaint is that the threshold is too low, the healing increase is too low, and the crit chance it too low.

Guardian Spirit

It doesn’t synergize with itself.  It either increases healing to the target, or it will heal for 10% health.

My suggestions:

Holy Concentration / Imp Holy Concentration

Make it proc at a rate based off the crit chance, but not linked to it (and raise it’s total chance to 50%).

“You have a chance equal to [50% of XX%] to proc the holy concentration state, per cast” (where XX% is your crit chance).  So if you have 20% crit, it would read, “chance equal to 10%.”

Divine Providence

We need a reason to choose this over Mental Agility.

Allow it to increase healing done by other spells as well.  It doesn’t have to be at the same percent as the multi-target heals.  Perhaps 1% or even a 0.5% increase to single-target heals (per rank).

Desparate Prayer

Some people advocating removing the man cost and increasing the cooldown.  I would rather keep it at two minutes and see if we can negotiate a 10%-20% reduction in cost (or increase in healing done).  We have to keep this spell better than casting a Flash of Light in most situations (otherwise, why spent the talent point?).

Hymn of Hope

This should not be channeled.  (Also, it should not be in the holy tree!)  The mana returned was reduced as more people have this spell.  I get that.  However, by making it as a channeled spell, no one would be casting it.

Remove the channel so we can at least benefit from this outside of phase transitions and times when we are too lazy to drink.

Test of Faith

I think the 6% healing and the 6% crit it gives could both be increased. (Both at 10%?).  Or make it more crit-based (6% healing, 12% crit).

I think the health threshold is fine where it is.

Guardian Spirit

Koraa, the priest class developer, already saw the thread and increased the healing done by Guardian Spirit to 50% of the target’s maximum health.

Check out the thread:

The thread is here.

Give feedback if you are in the beta! (Or give feedback on the PTR forums if you are in that!).

Share your thoughts!


11 Responses

  1. I did just post this at our guild site 15 min ago.

    I’m very disappointed how holy have turned out in the beta/ptr. My main concern is that nothing will change.
    I have 120 days played as 70 or so, and I guess at least ½ of them is healing, so around 1440 hours healing. And that’s fine, I really like healing, and that is what I want to keep doing. But I don’t want to play the same 1500 hours once more. The only difference will be that I get CoH (have Imp DS now), and yea, that’s a fun spell, I have had it a few times and I love it. But that doesn’t motive me to keep playing a holy priest.

    For the the 2 CoH priests in the guild, there will be no different at all, they will have the same healing spells, and a talent that increases healing on one tank with 40% for 10 sec every 3 min (and take a killing blow). And yea, that’s a great talent, but it doesn’t change the experience and spell rotation you are going to use as a priest. In TBC we did get PoM, Binding heal and CoH which did change the day to day healing a lot. And that is what I want again. Our new base spell is a AoE sleep with a small hot to it, and a 8 sec cast spell that restore around 1000 mana to everyone in your party = 8 sec that you cant heal on. Both this spells have long CD, 5-10 min I think.

    So what we get is 3 new spells (2 is base spell) that all 3 have long CD and doesn’t change they way you heal at all.
    So I stay holy and do the exact same thing again for 1500 hours, or respec deep disc and heal in a totally different way. But loosing a lot of healing power just to heal different doesn’t fell right either.

    So right now I really hope that Blizz rethinks about holy priests, and give us something that is fun/cool/change the way we heal. And no, this is not a nerf other classes / buff us post, this is a post about how boring holy in WotLK fells now. This is not something that will be sorted when balancing the classes, it’s to late now.

    And this is a interesting deep lvl 70 disc spec I think :)

  2. Gosh you’re fast, only just found that thread myself and thought I’d check to see if Dwarf Priest had commented on it and sure enough…:)

    My thoughts:
    Desperate Prayer, it should just be a mana-free emergency self-heal with a 10 minute cooldown – that is what made it unique…even if it is a little bit situational. With a mana cost, and a high mana cost at that, I’m not too sure on what the point of taking it is.

    Test of Faith:
    Needs a general buff to make it worth spending any points. I’m not a big fan of it and think it should be scrapped or reworked.

    Hymn of Hope:
    Useless in a raiding environment in its present form. I think it should be instant cast and give a mana regeneration over time (MoT). With a reasonable CD…maybe make it so that it only gives mana back to the priest.

    Holy Concentration and Improved Holy Concentration:
    I don’t like the idea of it proccing from a crit for the very reasons that that poster stated. Maybe the Holy concentration talent could give an independent % chance and the improved version could add an additional chance for it to proc off of critical heals, or use your idea and make it scale with critical chance…not sure how that would work…I’d like it to give increased mana regeneration over a short period instead of a free heal and/or haste buff…but maybe that’s asking too much.

    Divine Providence:
    A pretty pointless talent when you consider the alternatives, it should go too. Put something a little bit more interesting or useful in there, I don’t see too much of a reason for taking it currently.

    If they’re so intent on making critical heals more viable and useful, then maybe make it increase spell critical or even just the critical chance of flash heal, greater healer and binding, based on X amount of spirit or even spellpower.

    Yes, I know some of these ideas are a bit weird, and maybe impractical. :)

  3. The change to Guardian Spirit is welcome, but do you think that it might be overpowered in PvP (especially casual BGs)? Granting 50% health to the FC in WSG is nuts. Additionally, while I like that HC scales with crit, I’d rather see its proc detach from crits.

  4. I’ve been loving every minute of playing with my priest up untill now, and I tried not to get myself in too much of a negative-mode seeing the changes for priests in WotLK, but I can’t help having my doubts… The positive posts on this blog about things are helping but the changes seem to become worse by the day.

    I might have to go shadow in WotLK *GASP*

  5. That is it, I’m rolling a hunter!

  6. That is it, I am re-rolling as a hunter! ;-)

  7. As it seems you are in the beta I would love your feedback on a thread I have been working on. In the beta priest forum it is holy vs shadow dps with numbers. Up front if after reading it you think I’m a loon that is kosher by me. Just curoius what an accomplished healing\dps priest such as yourself thinks about matters such as holy\Disc and its role in dps\pvp situations.

  8. I haven’t played enough with PvP to really be a fair judge about which tree is better (it’s hard to say…. priests and other healer-types are going splat in matter of seconds).

    As for raid DPS, someone ran a comparison on a few days ago with SimulationCraft. Holy priest DPS ended up about 1k less DPS than shadow. Ouch. That gap could likely be closed up a bit with smart itemization, but will still be significantly less is my guess.

    If you think you can prove it possible, more power to you! Let me know what you find out. :)

  9. My thought:

    Make Desperate Prayer like Last Stand. After XX time you lose the health again, lose the mana cost and bump up the health gained.

    This will make it desperate, as you are only gaining time, but it has nice synergy with our class, as we can heal ourselves.


  10. ok the pure numbers from the sites don’t mean to much as a holy priest
    i’ve done deep disc / holy / shadow for Nax 25/10 sure theres not much more change from current setup for holy
    just get the right talent setup and you’ll find your top in heals and down in Over heals

    i will tell you now Guardian Spirit is the priests best Oh shat button for MT’s gives you that extra few seconds you need to get them back to full either in the 50% sac or the 40% increased heal, nothing like seeing a 20K+ GHeal crit or a 14K Flash heal

    one big change on the holy/disc side is PoM spamming is over the 6 sec CD on it just kills the old style of PoM raid healing

    Hymn of Hope is not as bad as most think, great for that need a quick kick of MP mid fight instead of using your one pot hit sheild / hymn you get some and the mp users get that little extra as well CD sucks but for boss fights it works

    Holy Concentration and Improved Holy Concentration
    personaly finding the proc rate very low and not reaily worth the 6 points if your Raid / CoH heals, MT Gheal spamming might be another story

    Smite build priests have decent DPS and healing abilitys
    took a few as Off heal/Dispells/DPS they managed to keep in the 1600 range on the dps and still have some decent healing action going as well

    Being pure shadow from 1-70 with some Healing in TBC to going Shadow 70-80 than pure Holy just for 5/10/25 is a nice change, than again Shadow Rotations you all know and hate now mean nothing SP has gone the way of Tab / SW:P / MB / SW :D / MF / MF / MB / MF /MF……. repeat MF/MB till mob dead or change a little and use SW:D

    Raid heal Talent build

    just a FYI Raid buffed
    Spellpower = 2K+
    Holy Crit = 19%
    Spell haste = 9%
    MP5 800-900 / Casting 600
    MP 2K / hp 2200

  11. I’m willing to wait until 80 to figure it all out. It’s been said by the devs that the current trees are focused on use @ 80 and not this weird in-between time from TBC to WOTLK. Yes my proc rate with the SOL & HC is lower than I’d like it but again, I’ll see how much that changes once we hit 80.

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